Curse

EinherjarMx · Sep 04, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55

did it last night with a couple of guildies
2 wammos (my guildies) (1 splinter wpn axe, 1 earthshaker hammer )
2 savannah heat eles (intense aoe, searing heat, teinai's, rodgorts mark and invocation, GoLE)
3 monks prot/heal hybrid heroes
1 apply poison BHA ranger hero with epidemic for the cromatic drakes

I think we did it in less than 2 hours and I guess it could take less if you do it with a full coordinated human group (guildies)

and as someone said, use a longbow/flatbow for pulling, also a pre-prot is nice for the spike the drakes do

it is hard but not THAT hard, enjoyable if you like challenges

btw soticoto, you could go with a moebius/death blossom build as long as you have a good monk helping

Jongo River · Sep 04, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

I don't deal too well with elementalist mobs.
Lemme guess... Chromatic Drakes with Sliver Armour and their Mind Elites... Frozen Elementals with their damnable Blurred Vision... No place for an Assassin at all.

I haven't taken my Sin over yet, but I'd do what I always do with him in difficult missions and fall back on a Critical Barrage build. Then make sure *all* your heroes have an interrupt or 2.

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by EinherjarMx

btw soticoto, you could go with a moebius/death blossom build as long as you have a good monk helping

I don't have guildies.
I've tried to get people to join my Guild, but they always leave after a couple of days at most, and I'm left solo again. I'm not giving up my own guild to join another because I have invested a lot in it (around 700 plat)... most of the gold I've ever earned in Guild Wars in fact...
And PuGs are useless.

In short... I have nobody to rely on but my Heroes and the Henchies... I don't have a choice there...
In that case, the Monk is only as good as the build it uses, and in Eye of the North, the usefulness of the build depends entirely on the gimmicks of the enemies in question. Got any recommendations?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jongo River

I haven't taken my Sin over yet, but I'd do what I always do with him in difficult missions and fall back on a Critical Barrage build. Then make sure *all* your heroes have an interrupt or 2.

I've heard that a few times.... but I prefer to stick to my daggers. It is what an Assassin is made for afterall. My Moebius spamming Critical Agility build deals enough damage for most things, though as mentioned it doesn't deal well with elementalist mobs due to lack of spell-defense.

*Shrugs*

It'd take a lot of serious failing to make me want to switch to a bow though.

Bryant Again · Sep 04, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

If you're having trouble with those annoying Norn going all suicide at the beginning, just let them charge in and kill themselves. They're really pointless.

Aside from that, the difficulty of the dungeons are perfect. If they tone it down it'll probably be too easy and less fun, and I find Hard Mode to be too time consuming. Leave the dungeons as they are, they're fine.

GloryFox · Sep 04, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

If you were to take a Sin, I strongly suggest your MM brings Whithering Aura and epidemic. With the party build I was running weakness was a key for survival.

EinherjarMx · Sep 04, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

I don't have guildies.
...In short... I have nobody to rely on but my Heroes and the Henchies... I don't have a choice there...
In that case, the Monk is only as good as the build it uses, and in Eye of the North, the usefulness of the build depends entirely on the gimmicks of the enemies in question. Got any recommendations?

only spellbreaker/shadow form comes to my mind, or go bonded to the teeth, i can't think of an effective build since my 'sin isn't on gwen yet and her place in the line is at the very back

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

If you were to take a Sin, I strongly suggest your MM brings Whithering Aura and epidemic. With the party build I was running weakness was a key for survival.

Weakness only influences direct attack damage... doesn't it?
Doesn't make a shred of difference to spell damage... does it?
I haven't yet found anything that physically attacks me to such an extent that Critical Agility, Way of Perfection and Critical Defenses can't cope with it. Spellcasters cause me far more trouble.... and I'm not aware of Weakness doing much more to them than lowering their attributes by a measly one point.

MSecorsky · Sep 04, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Some guildies and I went through there with little problems at all over the weekend. We had:

Two mesmers (1 dom, 1 Illusion (me))
One Ranger spamming Rit spirits

Heros:
One Rit hero (Razah) healing, Koss as W/D, Dunk and Tahlk in their roles (heal and prot) and Olias MMing.

Hex Eater Vortex was quite useful for the Wurm Bile, when they actually got it off without being interrupted. But that being that... we were a bit surprised at the lack of expected increased difficulty. It was a bit harder, but that was it. It was also our second (at least) time through, so maybe familiarity had something to do with it.

Trx · Sep 04, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Did it just me (paragon) and hero/hench, simple splinter barrage melee setup. Not the greatest setup but I wanted to see how hard it was now since it was easy when I last did it in the sneak peek weekend. Like others quite a few deaths in the first room but it wasn't so bad from there on. Pretty intense fights, wasn't bored while getting to the boss like in some other dungeons.

Took Holy Spear to mess around with, was fun to see a big cloud of dmg numbers on those ranger spirit spamming things but they are very weak so it wasn't that usefull

.

Kaane · Sep 04, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

whine whine whine

Dude, it sounds like you've got some sort of emotional problem. You can't stand dying once in a while? Can't stand *gasp* needing to try things several different ways before you get it right?

It's just a game, and some parts of it are meant to be hard, and you're meant to either try them several different ways to figure out the best way, or just gut your way through them at a heavy DP.

GloryFox · Sep 04, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

@SotiCoto

You know, your right. Don't take advice from the guy who cleared Frostmaw on the first try through. The fact that I used Anthem of Weariness had nothing to do with my success. Just ignore all the damage done to you from groups of worms popping up and bitting you for amazing amounts of physical damage.

Do you know what I really did?

I C-Spaced through Frostmaw and did a /yawn emote when I was done.

Your other option is to get bonded and do your thing. However I have no idea of the worms strip enchantments or not since I never used an enchant unless it was from Lina.

EinherjarMx · Sep 04, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

@SotiCoto

You know, your right. Don't take advice from the guy who cleared Frostmaw on the first try through. The fact that I used Anthem of Weariness had nothing to do with my success. Just ignore all the damage done to you from groups of worms popping up and bitting you for amazing amounts of physical damage.

Do you know what I really did?

I C-Spaced through Frostmaw and did a /yawn emote when I was done.

Your other option is to get bonded and do your thing. However I have no idea of the worms strip enchantments or not since I never used an enchant unless it was from Lina.

there are currently 2 kind of monsters that strip enchantments, the jotun mesmers and the stormcloud incubus...those little [email protected] that come out of nowhere and use soulrending shriek QQ (and happens i just had reapplied my attunement)

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Soulrending_Shriek

GloryFox · Sep 04, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

@EinherjarMx

Thats good to know, as I said earlier my personal build never used enchantments unless Lina used them.

Coraline Jones · Sep 04, 2007, 10:44 PM // 22:44

I think that some of the people that are having problems with this dungeon aren't saying that they don't want a challenge, but that Guild Wars is rapidly moving away from the casual player and more toward the hardcore elitist gamer. The amount of unhelpful responses--"maybe you should just quit sucking" is the summary of some of the replies--just seems to reinforce that that's all Guild Wars wants to be.

I think that this is a real problem in Guild Wars: Eye of the North. There's RPGs that are fun, and RPGs that are challenging. I think that the designers are getting confused and now they believe the challenge is the fun, and that's a terrible game model. There are dozens of RPGs that are really fun and not necessarily hard either. For example, the Playstation 2 game Okami has many RPG-ish elements and it won numerous game design awards and high praise from both fans and reviewers. This game is NOT hard at all, but it's extremely fun to play. People that believe that RPGs have to be on the difficulty level of a FPS Deathmatch game are really mistaken.

=====

As an aside, I sometimes wonder what's going to happen with the new gamers that pick up the Guild Wars Platinum Box Set. Here are new players that will bust through all the missions, get to the Ring of Fire island chain, and if they are an elementalist, they'll find it a real accomplishment to cap Elemental Attunement in Perdition Rock. Then they'll go to Eye of the North where they'll be asked, "Ping your build", followed shortly by "OMG N00B GTFO!!".

Maybe Guild Wars should just start providing "new instructions" for those that want to start playing this game now. It would have to be written partially in L33t-speak with lots of misspellings so everybody knows that it's for the r0xx0r g4m3r and therefore must be treated very seriously.

Guild Wars Guide To Being Super-L33T

Welcom to GW d00d! Heres how u can be total l33t in GW and not look like a n00b. Dont be a luser!!

1) Whenever possible, do teh /rank emote in town, mission, or PvP! It proves you are a winner, and not some luser that has 60 DP. Just remember, every time you forget to flash /rank to a stranger, God killz a kitten.

2) All the l33t weapuns cost 100K or more. Dont get that crap from a weapunsmith!! It only proves u r poor or a n00b. If you use cheap weps, it means yer using In-game Well-Fare!! Then when u enter PvP or a mission, ping ur weapon bar at least 3 timez. Other l33t g4m3rz like youself appreciate it every t1me.

3) Theres only one dye color u need. Black. Dye everythin black, d00d! The other colors r 4 cowards.

4) If u r new, then u dont know yet. But heres a hint. Asian Minis gets all the babes, man. If u get a mini-Panda, UR L33TNESS IZ CONFIRMED 4 LIFE.

5) If somebody is askin for help on a mission or quest, u dont have to help. But u can say how easy it is and call them n00bs, 'cause they need teh encouragement. It iz free and helps them gain self-reliance. U r doin a public service!

[Insert a smiley face here.]

Incandecree · Sep 04, 2007, 11:09 PM // 23:09

The dungeon to me is mostly easy.

My party build is:
hench: healer monk
hench: prot monk
hench: warrio
hench: fire ele
hero: Gwen running Migrain and Sum of All Fears and 2 interrupts.
hero: savannah heat ele
hero: mm

now my skill bar:
smite
smite hex
smite condition
seed of life
web of disruption
cry of pain
pain inverter (asuran skill)
shield of judgement

SoJ works great on a warrior that runs up on the worms since they don't appear to be able to be knocked down.

Pain Inverter is great on a worm that is using its siege attack. With alot of minions being hit you can take a worm from 100% health to 50% with this skill. Also throw this skill on an ele that is putting up sliver armor and watch it kill itself.

Cry of Pain is great AoE damage.

my build is all armor ignoring.

Just something that I have fun with.

malko050987 · Sep 05, 2007, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coraline Jones

I think that some of the people that are having problems with this dungeon aren't saying that they don't want a challenge, but that Guild Wars is rapidly moving away from the casual player and more toward the hardcore elitist gamer. The amount of unhelpful responses--"maybe you should just quit sucking" is the summary of some of the replies--just seems to reinforce that that's all Guild Wars wants to be.

I think that this is a real problem in Guild Wars: Eye of the North. There's RPGs that are fun, and RPGs that are challenging. I think that the designers are getting confused and now they believe the challenge is the fun, and that's a terrible game model. There are dozens of RPGs that are really fun and not necessarily hard either. For example, the Playstation 2 game Okami has many RPG-ish elements and it won numerous game design awards and high praise from both fans and reviewers. This game is NOT hard at all, but it's extremely fun to play. People that believe that RPGs have to be on the difficulty level of a FPS Deathmatch game are really mistaken.

=====

As an aside, I sometimes wonder what's going to happen with the new gamers that pick up the Guild Wars Platinum Box Set. Here are new players that will bust through all the missions, get to the Ring of Fire island chain, and if they are an elementalist, they'll find it a real accomplishment to cap Elemental Attunement in Perdition Rock. Then they'll go to Eye of the North where they'll be asked, "Ping your build", followed shortly by "OMG N00B GTFO!!".

Maybe Guild Wars should just start providing "new instructions" for those that want to start playing this game now. It would have to be written partially in L33t-speak with lots of misspellings so everybody knows that it's for the r0xx0r g4m3r and therefore must be treated very seriously.

Guild Wars Guide To Being Super-L33T

Welcom to GW d00d! Heres how u can be total l33t in GW and not look like a n00b. Dont be a luser!!

1) Whenever possible, do teh /rank emote in town, mission, or PvP! It proves you are a winner, and not some luser that has 60 DP. Just remember, every time you forget to flash /rank to a stranger, God killz a kitten.

2) All the l33t weapuns cost 100K or more. Dont get that crap from a weapunsmith!! It only proves u r poor or a n00b. If you use cheap weps, it means yer using In-game Well-Fare!! Then when u enter PvP or a mission, ping ur weapon bar at least 3 timez. Other l33t g4m3rz like youself appreciate it every t1me.

3) Theres only one dye color u need. Black. Dye everythin black, d00d! The other colors r 4 cowards.

4) If u r new, then u dont know yet. But heres a hint. Asian Minis gets all the babes, man. If u get a mini-Panda, UR L33TNESS IZ CONFIRMED 4 LIFE.

5) If somebody is askin for help on a mission or quest, u dont have to help. But u can say how easy it is and call them n00bs, 'cause they need teh encouragement. It iz free and helps them gain self-reliance. U r doin a public service!

[Insert a smiley face here.]

Mind if I quote your rules on my guild's forum? With proper credit and such, of course.

I'm not sure I agree with the first part of your post. A casual, relatively new-to-GW gamer (one that has finished one of the campaigns before) will have no problems getting through the three storylines in GW:EN. The missions are no challenge at all, really. Some of the dungeons ARE harder, of course, but so is Tombs of Primeval Kings, Underworld, Fissure of Woe and countless other areas through the three campaigns. A casual player has no business going in there.

I find the casual part of the game easy and fun. Going into Frostmaw's isn't required in order to progress through the game. You just do it if you want a complete Dungeon book, or are farming for the rewards. And casual players don't need to farm places like that.

And on "Here are new players that will bust through all the missions, get to the Ring of Fire island chain, and if they are an elementalist, they'll find it a real accomplishment to cap Elemental Attunement in Perdition Rock."

I HATE people who rush through the missions the first time they're playing. How the hell can you expect them to be able to even PLAY, if all they did was tag-along after a helpful guildie or a PUG who blunders its way through each mission? Or even worse, those that beg and catch runs. One would hope that when they get to the Ring of Fire they have an idea of what they're doing, but often they don't. And how many of the new players will only get as far as LA and then get levelled so they can get to GWEN ?

Of course they're going to be called names if they have no idea what they're doing, and got to level 20 without any knowledge of how the game mechanics work. Sure, Anet gets their money, but I'd rather they didn't play at all >.>

SotiCoto · Sep 05, 2007, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaane

Dude, it sounds like you've got some sort of emotional problem. You can't stand dying once in a while? Can't stand *gasp* needing to try things several different ways before you get it right?

And it sounds like you've got some sort of mental problem.
Dying once or twice is generally indicative of continued dying and continued time-wasting. It is something to be avoided. That is a blatantly obvious and indubitable fact.

Quote:

It's just a game, and some parts of it are meant to be hard, and you're meant to either try them several different ways to figure out the best way, or just gut your way through them at a heavy DP.

The unforgivable line.
Let me inform you of something: LIFE is just a game.
If you're going to bother taking ANYTHING seriously... it might as well be this.

I'm a gamer.
It is what I do.
I play things like Guild Wars... and all else is subsidiary.
And I will keep doing it until my inevitable death.

There is no "just" about it.

.... People who use that line are one of the few things in existence that REALLY bug me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

You know, your right. Don't take advice from the guy who cleared Frostmaw on the first try through. The fact that I used Anthem of Weariness had nothing to do with my success. Just ignore all the damage done to you from groups of worms popping up and bitting you for amazing amounts of physical damage.

Is scepticism forbidden now or something?
I question everything... it is in my nature. Doesn't mean I'm criticising or overtly trying to dispute what you're saying.
I might well try it as you say. Enfeebling Blood should do well enough, right? Or does Anthem of Weariness have some extra advantage? I guess it just depends on which heroes I want to take...

Then again, I don't know yet if the wurms in there are any tougher than the ones outside the dungeon or not. I wrecked the ones outside with no trouble at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coraline Jones

...but that Guild Wars is rapidly moving away from the casual player and more toward the hardcore elitist gamer.

When I was younger, as I recall "hardcore" equated to dedicating a substantial amount of time and effort to something.... not necessarily that they did it on a higher difficulty level.
Apparently things change...
I've been playing games solidly since the days of the Amiga 500 ... usually dedicating most of my free time to them. I still have a stack of old consoles and boxes full of games from at least as far back as the 16-bit era. I get about 6 free hours in the average day now, and I dedicate at least 5 of them to gaming....... and yet I'm not "hardcore" because I'm reluctant to set foot into the "elite" areas of the game?
If I was more easily offended I would certainly be quite put out at your implication that I might be "casual"... as being labelled a "casual gamer" is one of the most insulting things I can imagine. Console and computer games were never supposed to just be picked up and played for 5 minutes then put down. It is an insult to the time and effort that has gone into making what is effectively an art-form.

Times really are changing... -_-;
But then I never was a competitive gamer; I'm a roleplayer first and foremost. I'm too busy respecting the game's asthetic content to care much for the mechanical content.

Nexus Icon · Sep 05, 2007, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Soti, my only criticism of you is of your apparent unwillingness to learn by your own mistakes.
I find it makes me a better player, more able to adapt to situations if I do try things out and die a few times.
I learn what works and what doesn't, and most importantly, I don't have to rely on somebody else to design a cookie-cutter build for me.

Aside from that, I agree that people are ragging on you a bit too much.

SotiCoto · Sep 05, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus Icon

Soti, my only criticism of you is of your apparent unwillingness to learn by your own mistakes.
I find it makes me a better player, more able to adapt to situations if I do try things out and die a few times.
I learn what works and what doesn't, and most importantly, I don't have to rely on somebody else to design a cookie-cutter build for me.

Aside from that, I agree that people are ragging on you a bit too much.

I prefer to learn from other peoples' mistakes. Involves less time wastage on my part... and I really don't have enough free time to be wasting it any more.
Furthermore, it isn't that I don't learn from my own mistakes... but rather that I learn far too extremely, and every mistake I make causes me to be more cautious and less willing to make another. Given the number of mistakes I've made through my time playing Guild Wars, it is little wonder that the very thought of elite areas makes me paranoid.

That and the fact that I'm VERY critical of personal failure.
That time that I spent 50 minutes setting up Charr in the Pre-Searing Northlands, only to have one of the Shamans I was trying to pre-kill for the setup charge out of the exit and take me with him..... It took me several weeks to forgive myself for that completely idiotic mistake.
Failure just isn't an option for me...

Trx · Sep 05, 2007, 11:45 AM // 11:45

To bring this thread back on topic, just did another run with hero/hench.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Myself as a Paragon/ Warrior, TNTF, Save Yourselves, Focused Anger.
Paragon 1, Motivational Healer.
Paragon 2, Command, and conditions caller.
Necro /Paragon. MM Orders, with Motivation healing.
Hench Healer
Hench Protector
Hench Interupter
Hench Barrage

I completely stole your setup idea and I have to say it works extremely well in this dungeon. I used different builds (on the screenshot you can somewhat see the builds, especially the necro one is pretty funky lol) but the general idea was the same, massive damage reduction, sustained motivation healing and melee augmentation from the necro.

I had 2 deaths in the entire run, both my own fault because I got a bit reckless. Once when I engaged a full group Stormcloud Incubus' and a ton of worms popped on me, and once when I just engaged that big group of Jotun's at the end of level 4 and again a ton of worms popped on me. Both times it had that boss type worm in it. Pretty amazing what this setup can survive, I fought full groups of mandragors and worms at the same time without a single death.

This setup is definately not the fastest but people who like to play it safe (I have to admit I prefer fights lasting a bit longer then having to battle massive dp all the time) should give this a try. Not sure how well this works for non-paragons but most melee should be able to keep SY up most of the time with a dark fury hero.

Got one diamond and one Onyx and 2 gold drops I think, not bad. Thanks for the idea, will be using this now when I decide to h/h this place again.

Edit: lol just noticed Morgahn didnt even have an elite, I kinda rushed the whole thing together in 10 min.